[03:09:37] iD hat schon ~1460 issues [03:09:47] mal sehen, wann/ob er JOSM einholt [03:09:48] :) [03:10:58] channel ? :) [03:11:16] https://github.com/systemed/iD/issues/1458 [03:12:11] => malenki: iD doesn't do things just because JOSM does them a certain way [03:12:44] ah, darn @ Richlv [03:12:44] * Getrennt (Die Verbindung wurde vom Kommunikationspartner zurückgesetzt). [03:12:55] * malenki setzt Modus +R malenki [03:12:55] * malenki setzt Modus +i malenki [03:13:32] thanks for the hint, RichardF [03:14:08] jfire, so..? I though think that people should be warned when they maybe accidentially change the direction of certain ways [03:15:09] => malenki: why? what's the purpose of changing a way's direction? [03:15:31] i wrote: accidentially [03:16:06] Yes, but what's special about reversing a way? Should iD follow every action with "Warning: you just did X"? [03:16:16] since iD targets not-so-experienced users it wouldn't be a bad thing to do [03:17:08] in that comment i referred to ways with /direction depended tags/ [03:17:24] not-so-experienced users would have no idea what to do if you showed them a complex message that certain tags were changed [03:17:32] it would discourage them from editing [03:17:46] nice [03:17:59] so not to discourage them, better let them break things? :) [03:18:00] 99% of the time, you just want to reverse the oneway [03:18:13] show me what's being broken [03:18:46] you haven't shown any case where things break [03:18:46] i'll point you to it when i find stuff [03:19:03] my guess is the most likely canidate is *:right and *:left [03:19:08] you mean where users broke things? [03:19:15] or were things could break? [03:19:22] either [03:19:45] pnorman, that is dealt with: https://github.com/systemed/iD/commit/bcb4de4305dcb6d6093992fb3928a8cc0c25e4a8 [03:20:21] jfire, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dcoastline#How_to_enter_the_data [03:20:28] "They must be drawn so that the land is on the left side and water on the right side of the way" [03:20:54] => malenki: AFAIK, that's not actually true anymore [03:20:59] jfire: it is true [03:21:09] that is not true for natural=water afaik [03:21:38] note to self : when you wonder why school name is not rendered, check that you haven't misspelled/t "name" as "nem" [03:21:42] when you (accidential) reverse a waterway or a oneway the issue should be obvious [03:21:57] * simonpoole hat die Verbindung getrennt (Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~) [03:22:01] coastlines is one of rare cases where that stil is true [03:22:04] it doesn't matter for natural=water, but the direction of natural=coastline ways is essential to the meaning and messing it up will cause rendering errors [03:22:13] still [03:23:50] hmm, maybe worth disabling the reverse action on coastline [03:24:18] (if you use shortcuts with iD it could easily happen you press "v" instead of "b" for background) [03:24:40] or somehow visually indicating water/land side [03:24:42] jfire, how would an iD-user then fix a wrongly directed coastline? ;) [03:24:45] if they draw in some coastline then how are they going to fix it if its the wrong way? [03:25:19] i frequently draw coastline without regard to left/right and reverse it after i've finished a way [03:25:33] yeah, you would have to draw it the right way to begin with [03:25:34] hint: we don't say "foo is bad" but "foo could get enhanced doing xy" [03:25:53] => malenki: I don't follow [03:26:07] then nvm [03:26:21] ...or just warn when reversing a coastline ? :) [03:26:47] indicating land/water side might work - perhaps something like a gradiant or hatching on the water side [03:26:49] * nick hat die Verbindung getrennt (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [03:27:37] yeah, the rendering of coastline is pretty bad right now [03:27:44] it's just a thin green line [03:29:16] a warning when deleting members of relations would be nice, too [03:30:25] wait, there's no indication that you're messing up a relation? [03:30:29] * Japa_ hat die Verbindung getrennt (Quit: Leaving) [03:30:34] no [03:31:05] i came to notice this (and my issue i started this discussion with) due to a thread in talk-de [03:31:12] which points this out [03:31:39] Well that's slightly alarming. Hope the damage isn't too bad :\ [03:31:44] => malenki: again, I think it's much better to provide strong visual cues, before and after an action, than popping up an "Are you sure?" message on lots of changes. [03:32:15] visually displaying route relations and turn restriction relation is high priority [03:32:31] jfire, if you don't want to warn the user when he is going to do something "bad" you should find an other way to keep him from destroying stuff accidentially [03:32:45] <@iandees> that's what he just said. [03:33:18] i wouldn't say so [03:33:34] * rasher thinks this should've been sorted out before launching it to the main page, frankly [03:33:44] if an unexperienced user sees some colored lines in the editor, what will he think of them? [03:34:05] * Nexen hat die Verbindung getrennt (Quit: Leaving) [03:34:15] <@iandees> if an unexperienced user sees a box that says "YOURE ABOUT TO BREAK A RELATION! OMG WTF BBQ!" he will close the window, shrug, and walk away [03:34:16] rasher, the thread i referred to: http://wooyaequ.notlong.com [03:34:27] if you're deleting a way involved in a turn restriction you'd expect it to screw up the turn restriction, and no editor should be warning you there. Maybe they should ask if you also want to delete the relation [03:34:40] iandees: the problem, is that i constantly get that warning every time i merge 2 things [03:34:56] iandees: and 99% of the time i double check it, nothing is broken [03:34:58] so i just ignore it [03:35:18] clever, i assume you mean JOSM, not iD [03:35:23] yeah, josm [03:35:33] havent heard of an iD editor [03:35:52] ya, josm's warnings on merge are horribly broken. split a way that's part of a route then re-merge the parts and you get a warning [03:36:04] <@iandees> clever: exactly, so like jfire says the warning dialog is useless [03:36:18] clever, just log into osm.org and press tzhat arrow at "edit" a little longer [03:36:18] At least you're aware something is happening (even if you're ignoring the specific alerts) - new iD users apparently have no way of knowing they're breaking data [03:36:34] pnorman: my current thinking is that if we do a good job with displaying turn restrictions (show them on the map, show them in the save changes dialog), deleting a member should delete the restriction as well [03:36:57] => malenki: ah, new editor options, neat [03:36:58] JOSM just always asks about relation memberships on merge [03:37:12] jfire: repeat for every other relation type [03:37:19] mentor: yes, and that behavior is broken for some cases like the one I pointed out [03:37:21] clever, that functionality is there since quite some time [03:37:30] just iD there is only some days old [03:37:56] i thought it used to be just potlatch? [03:38:14] I'm not sure broken is the right word [03:38:15] ? [03:38:19] it used to be P1/P2/remote control [03:38:33] JOSM doens't track merging and splitting of ways [03:38:36] mentor: it's popping up a warning when it should know it's not necessary [03:38:37] one thing people constantly break - they split a way that's part of turn restriction and we end up with two from/to ways [03:38:49] Richlv: iD handles that case! [03:39:02] josm does as well afaik... [03:39:04] anyone have experience with any of the leaflet heatmap plugins? [03:39:18] jfire, glad to hear that, hadn't managed to test it yet :) [03:39:29] i think every major editor handles that correctly [03:39:43] pnorman, does josm now, too ? [03:40:36] Richlv, never experienced an other behaviour... [03:40:45] mentor: the issue is joining two ways that are part of a route relation where they have the same role and are adjacent in the relation and the ways have the same direction. Why would you pop up a dialog at the user in that situation? splitting a way just happens to be the easiest way to get that situation to occur [03:41:35] => malenki, another being ? [03:41:52] pnorman: Well, if I wanted to make it better, I would implement a whole load of understanding of the structure of the various relations, so that it does the right thing. [03:41:56] Richlv, don't get you [03:42:18] pnorman: My point was simply that it's not currently trying to do that in any way; it just always asks. [03:42:31] mentor: yes, and my point is that is broken [03:42:54] pnorman: It's a feature request :) [03:42:59] I got in the mail an ad for 3Mbit Internet [03:43:08] => malenki, what did you not experience ? [03:43:08] JOSM likes asking things [03:43:14] I already have a 6Mbit plan *from that same ISP*, what moron takes care of advertisement there? [03:43:15] It makes it feel loved [03:43:43] Richlv, i did not experience josm messing up turn relations when splitting a way which was a part of one [03:43:44] oh, josm really handles it properly now [03:43:59] apparently i had not checked it for quite some time :) [03:44:00] nice [04:02:00] gn8